Israel to demolish Al-Aqsa?

Israel to demolish Al-Aqsa?

http://www.alalam.ir/English/en-NewsPage.asp?newsid=032180120080227113037

I understand the above article from the Iran-based Al-Alam news service as saying that the Israeli government is planning to demolish the sacred Al-Aqsa?

 Please tell me this is a lie?

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24 Responses to “Israel to demolish Al-Aqsa?”

  1. Roman Kalik Says:

    Um, it’s a lie? Sheesh.

    Seriously, Ahmad, the conspiracy theories and outright lies that run around the Muslim world scare me. This entire Iranian article is case to point – an angry rant that demands the destruction of my country, the mass forced-expulsion (or worse) of the vast majority of the Jews, and then brings a bunch of hate-driven slogans to say why this plan is just – the supposed and oft-repeated “Jewish Zionists want to destroy Al-Aqsa” lie being a part of it.

    Ahmad, in the aftermath of the Six Day War, the Israeli government gave the Muslim Waqf control of Al-Aqsa. This agreement, and the near-fanatical reaction of many Muslims when Israelis go anywhere near Al-Aqsa proper, has led to a reality where the remnants of the Second Temple (Al-Aqsa was built on the exact same site) being destroyed due to the recent construction of a large open-air mosque that expands down into the mount – is silently ignored, to keep the peace and a semblance of calm. Neither do you see Jewish Rabbis leading violent protests against this very real issue, though it certainly makes them (and me) sad. Seeing archaeologists sifting through construction rubble isn’t a pleasant experience.

    And yet, for largely political reasons, Israel is automatically viewed as a risk to a Muslim holy site, by mere proximity.

    Ahmad, you may or may not know this, but the Temple Mount is the single most important site for Judaism. For reasons of religious sanctity, we can’t go onto the site where the Temple itself stood. Instead, we pray at the Western Wall, the remaining support wall of the Mount. And yet I do not hear cries of how the “Muslim presence” of the site should be cleansed due to some perceived threat.

    You know, Israeli officials once asked the Waqf to stop kids from playing soccer on the Mount proper, to respect basic Jewish religious sentiments. This was ignored. The article you brought (and what I see around me today) leads me to believe that respect for religious sentiments goes only one way here. Muslims worldwide must understand Jerusalem is our Mecca, for lack of a better parallel. If Muslims instead prefer to focus squarely on their claims while utterly minimizing Jews and Judaism (as the article did), then nothing good will come.

  2. elyakatz Says:

    This particular canard against Israel is tossed around whenever some Muslim extremist group or person wants to rouse fury against Israel, typically in order to justify some dirty deed they’re planning on, or to start riots in order for the mob to do their filthy work.

    One case off the top of my head…the Hebron Massacre of 1929….I’m sure I could find more if I felt like being depressed.

  3. Roman Kalik Says:

    Furthermore, should you link an article that actually brings a set of arguments to support its claims, I will address them – one after the other. This I promise. This article, though, isn’t even worth a second glance. Had the state of Israel wanted to destroy Al-Aqsa, *it would have*. Over forty years ago.

    And yet somehow, people fail to notice this simple fact – that for over forty years, Israel *didn’t* destroy Al-Aqsa.

  4. abuskander Says:

    Roman i did not say that this was true, i actually doubted it, thats why i asked if it was a lie, it was not just a matter of rhetoric.

    Only reason why i even took it into consideration is the way Al-Alam presents it. I did not think that a news service like that would just prevent rigid lies as a fact, but then again, it would not surprise me if they did.

    If it is a lie then no problem, that only makes me happy, anyway i have not the greatest confidence in Iran and their servants. Why would i have that…

  5. Roman Kalik Says:

    I’m not really familiar with this particular Iranian news outlet, but if it’s close to the regime (and all news outlets in Iran proper must all get the state’s seal of approval in terms of what they broadcast) then it’s likelier to repeat the state party line – and thus the state sanctioned propaganda.

  6. Edmund Says:

    The article is incorrect, Israel plans to destroy a different mosque. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=700+year+old+mosque

    I forgot the name of it but they claim it was built without a housing permit….. 700 years ago.

  7. Assaf Says:

    Dear Ahmad,

    As someone else noted above, this libel was probably one of the biggest historical aggravators of the Arab-Israeli conflict. It was propagated first by the Mufti of Jerusalem Al-Husseini (who was an ally of the Nazis) in the early 20th century and exacerbated any existing tensions between Jews and Arabs in British Mandate Palestine into riots against the Jews in numerous years (one of the worst in 1929) and was one of the first instances that turned the conflict into a religious one. It is also one of the things that helped to end dialogue which existed between the Jewish and Arab leadership at the time.

    In fact, as Roman noted above while the Temple Mount (Har HaBayit to Jews) is the most sacred place in the world to Jews, most do not ascend because we are not allowed to by the majority of Jewish jurists. However, at certain times Jews and Israelis who are secular or who rely on a minority religious ruling may be allowed to visit as tourists by the Israeli police depending on the state of relations with the Palestinians. If anyone is seen moving their lips as if praying they will be taken away by the Israeli police so as to not create more tensions with the Muslims.

    By the way have you seen this letter from Muslim clerics to Jews and if so what do you think about it :

    http://www.woolfinstitute.cam.ac.uk/cmjr/assets/img/letter.pdf

    Roman,

    The last time I was in Jerusalem I saw the kids playing soccer on the Temple Mount. It was heartbreaking. Considering that so many Muslims consider it their third holiest site, I am amazed that the waqf allows such a desecration of this holiest of places to go on.

    As for Edmund’s assertion that Israeli is planning to destroy a 700 year old mosque because of a lack of a permit…well excuse me if I don’t exactly trust a google search which results in a bunch of blog posts referencing one nationalist Sheikh. If Israel were planning to do so, I’m sure it would be in many mainstream news sources including AP, Reuters etc. I mean look at the controversy that erupted when Israel just wanted to repair a visitor’s ramp to the Temple Mount which had collapsed. People went nuts even though it was intended for Muslim use only and the Israeli government put a live 24 hour video feed on the internet to assure people that there was no destruction taking place.

  8. Roman Kalik Says:

    Oh, sweet and almighty Lord…

    I have dug and dug and dug, Edmund, and ALL the articles on the web seem to quote directly from this article: http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=27566

    Any further reference? Nil. There’s an Al-Omari mosque in Lod (where I live), in Tiberias, and in… Lebanon.

    Even the Arab news networks aren’t touching this one with a ten-foot pole.

    Let’s sum it up, shall we? Sheikh Muhammad Hussein apparently makes this statement. Ma’an News is the only media organization in the world that reports on it, for some odd reason. Various blogs and web-based ‘new media’ sites copy-paste the article, or translate it word-by-word.

    Get back to me when you find a *second* article, Edmund. One with a fact in it. All I see so far is an urban myth in the making.

  9. Howie Says:

    Ahmed-

    This is old news that pops up all the time…

    If you want Truth…the truth is that any Muslim can walk the streets of Jerusalem, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Petach Tikvah is headscarf, kafiyeh…etc. and have no problems…none…and I know because I lived there and saw it every single day…

    Now…would you being willing to dress up like a religious Jew or even secular and take a walk through Jenin…I also KNOW that people there have been torn to pieces…have had their penis cut off…stuck in their mouth and hung from poles…just for making a wrong turn…

    This kind of propaganda is routine. I remember living in Israel in the 80’s when somebody spread a rumor of Israel poisoning the ARabs…TV was filled with images of choking students etc…a lie and one that did cause a genuine panic…

    If you are looking for hard truth here…much of what you have likely been told is going to be shaken…

    Yes there are roadblocks and shakedowns and hasseling and yes..there are military strikes…

    But there is no shortage of outright lies…and wild stuff like this as well…

    If you want real destruction stories…check out what the Arabs did to our cemetaries when and other holy sites when they got their hands on them…

    That truth might be a bit uncomfortable.

  10. abuskander Says:

    Howie:

    I am aware that many of the things i’ve been told can be lies or propaganda. Alone my first experience with an israeli (look under the Haaretz post) confirmed this to me.

    But how can you be sure that none of what you have been told is a lie?

  11. Howie Says:

    Abuskander-

    I can respond to that;

    1. Israeli news sources are not a government monopoly…there is enormous freedom of press

    2. I know hundreds of people who have served various functions in the IDF…including my wife, nephews, in-laws, friends, etc. etc.

    3. I lived in Israel and saw things with my own eyes on a day-to-day basis

    4. I worked in Arab villages there. In fact, I had volunteered to work in Jenin…and was talked out of it…by an ARAB friend…it was my Jewish bosses that wanted me to go.

    Do I believe there is lying and manipulation in the Jewish press…of course I do…but there is a very live and active and very FREE debate…

    I can ask you how do you know the Qur’an is not a lie…or the Old Testament, or anything…

    Ultimately, there is some act of acceptance or faith…but if I were to compare the news sources of the the Jewish world compared to what I have heard of or noted in the Muslim world…and then based on my own direct experiences and talks with vast amounts of people that have been right there…I think I come closer to the truth in this matter.

    Can you freely gather, debate, protest, question, satire, criticize, challenge in places like Saudia, Somalia, Iran, Egypt, Gaza? You know that answer.

    You can do all those things in Israel…

    Which news sources would you tend more to trust?

    In speaking with Muslim friends…and I have several…I can tell you what they have told me…they were lied to….grossly lied to…at least about Jews.

    Look at your own words “my first experience with an Israeli”…

    I have had experiences…good and bad, with Muslims since 1970…who might have a more balanced and informed perspective…

    I like you dude…I really do…your mind is a razor…

    Opening it will be upsetting me thinks.

  12. abuskander Says:

    No Howie i think you got me wrong. Under the Ha-Aretz thing, i wrote to our dear friend Assaf what my first experience with an israeli was like. That experience confirmed to me that i’ve been lied to.

    No doubt that there is a difference there, but i live in Denmark, we have many palestinians here, many of them former higher ranking Fatah-members. I’ve heard stories too – stories that an israeli would never accept. Just like i am sure that you have heard stories who they would never accept.

    My point was not who is more reliable and who is more democratic (i know that) but my point was: You should also be open to the fact that the possibility that some of these things could be a lie do exist. You rightfully expect me to do the same.

  13. Roman Kalik Says:

    Ahmad, you ask us not to take what we were taught or told as we grew up (be it by our parents, our education system, our media, our government etc.) as uncontestable truth. You will find that you are preaching to the choir in this case. Academics and historians here routinely investigate and challage the past, government and military are routinely criticized, verbally attacked, and protested against. Regardless of our personal bias (or perhaps due to it), there are many people in Israel who would believe the stories you mention, or at least try and investigate them without being shackled to preconceived notions.

    This is a very diverse country, Ahmad, and “no Israeli will accept” is a stretch.

  14. Howie Says:

    Ahmad;

    “My point was not who is more reliable and who is more democratic (i know that) but my point was: You should also be open to the fact that the possibility that some of these things could be a lie do exist. You rightfully expect me to do the same.”

    Fair enough…

    My response is…I don’t believe everything I hear. Also…after being a practicing psychologist for around 30+ years…I also know the importance that perception has…I don’t think Israel is a bunch of angels nor do I believe we Jews are a group of saints…

    But the degree of the barrage of lies and distortions, I note, is incomparable and this is especially troubling when much of it is based on firing up emotion and hatred.

    Really…there are a few very fringe groups that run around telling us to hate and kill Arabs…but even Kahane didn’t really preach that (by the way, he was murdered in cold blood in New York by an Egyptian, to whom he was NO threat).

    So there is no equvalencey here…there just is not and that is a vital and important difference. Even go look at Arutz 7…they are pretty right wing…but I just don’t get the hate and kill stuff coming out of there.

    I see the differences between the two groups as grossly, even grotesquely different and that is a critical factor…esp. if we are ever gonna try to get along with each other. Something I desperately have always hoped for and realistically see as only getting worse.

  15. Edmund Says:

    I’m sorry but to say that Kahane was not a threat is insulting to humanity. Have we forgotten the acts of Baruch Goldstein already?

  16. Howie Says:

    Edmund-

    That is such a silly and worn out argument. Name me 5 others, even in KACH, that acted out in a similar fashion.

    I can remember one guy, named Sarasportsa (circa 1985ish)…that was a mentally ill man that went nuts and shot some Arabs. So there you have the sum total of Jewish terrorism in Israel for about the last 40 years…

    And Goldstein did not have Israeli families in the streets dancing and handing out candy…it was a shame. And he was not under orders from an organized system nor was he, to my knowledge, a member of KACH. He was an MD that had been treating a whole lot of terror victims and finally snapped.

    You have tens of thousands of Israeli’s with regular access to very powerful weapons…and almost none of this free lance terrorism…oh..there was a guy that did something like this on a bus around Nazareth around the time of the Gaza withdrawal…OK…three in 40 years…

    Ah…should I start on how many Arabs pulled this stuff…and then should I start on how many were caught and prevented and how many did not try because of the tight security.

    Just a very immature grasping at straws Edmund

    Find a better argument and stop with the moral equivlency silliness…

  17. Edmund Says:

    The fact that you limit yourself to the past 40 years shows bias. Also there are weekly attacks on palestinian farmers by settlers. Is this not terrorism?

    You said he was no threat yet his political party was labeled a terrorist group by Israel, this is equal to a claim of Osama not being dangerous be he just speaks the hate and doesn’t actually participate.

    Can you justify the acts of the Stern and Irgun, can you justify the King David hotel bombing?

    Neither side is innocent.

  18. Howie Says:

    Edmund-

    Please…find a reasonable argument…

    Osama = Khane…..lovely…

    Israel labled his group terrorists…good…shows some moral courage doesn’t it? Has Fatah labeled Hamas terrorist? Islamic Jihad? Al Aksah

    Stern and Irgun…OK…and they had this enormous support around the world and still have a promient and admired place in the Jewish world…let’s see…they lasted about 3-4 years and and have been gone for about 60.

    Weekly attacks on Palestinians by farmers…death toll….ZERO…

    Farmers attacking Palestinians a recognized and encouraged tactic by the Israeli government and part of the constitution? You know it is not…

    OK…so you go with King David which was aimed at British military…not Arabs…so that is the best you can do with jewish terrorism

    Palestinian;

    Munich
    The murder of Klinghoffer in a wheelchair on a cruise ship, nothing to do with Israel
    Murder of Jews in Italy synagouge
    Murder of children at the school in Ma’alot
    Bombings in; movie theaters, cafes, schools, busses…for at least the last 60 years.
    Suicide bombings
    Bombing of the Netanya bus
    Bombing of the #1 bus, that including a friend of mine, her husband and 5 children

    And that is merely a quick superficial review…and that does not touch the hundreds and hundreds of regular close calls and just misses and people being caught.

    You are comparing these two things? You compare KACH…name me three completed terrorist acts you can attribute to KACH…give me a death toll…

    2 or 3 or none?

    And with the farmers…sometimes it is intimidation and wrong and sometimes it is self-defense and almost never murderous I just can’t remember the last time a Jewish farmer sent a mentally retarded man with a suicide belt into a crowded Palestinian movie theater to blow-up.

    Edmund…instead of trying to come up with these less than thin arguments…why not face the truth…that these are NOT two sides of the same coin…not at all…it is not equal…the Palestinians basically invented modern day terrorism and have improved on their gift to the world.

    Thank you Edmund…thank you Palestinians…this is your gift…your legacy…be proud.

  19. Howie Says:

    Edmund:

    “The fact that you limit yourself to the past 40 years shows bias.”

    I agree with you there…let me correct myself:

    Jewish terror in Israel from 70 AD to 1890 = zero

    1890 until 2008…I can think of about 5-7 incidents…two major ones during time of war…

    5-7 attempts is pretty a slow WEEK for Palestinians since at least the 1940’s and maybe more like since the 1920’s or earlier.

    So I do stand corrected on that one.

  20. Howie Says:

    OH….let me add 8 teenage yeshiva boys murdered today while studying and praying…

  21. Howie Says:

    Edmund-

    By the way…they are celebrating this in the streets of Gaza today…

    Plan to join the party?

  22. akroun Says:

    I think one should try to demolish the El-Aksa mosque just to test whether Allah will respond with his wrath or with his neglect. Just to test the punishement of GOD hypothesis. It can also be a test to prove whether Allah exist.

    But I would not do it if I was Israel, I will bring in some atheits, so that way if there is some repercusions they will befall on the infidels atheists instead of the people of the book (Jews and Christians).

  23. Slaven Abdi Says:

    akroun> Same idea an american senator proposed to do with Mecca… indeed an interesting way of testing Divine intervention…
    It would be much in the same way as blowing up Stonehenge to see if there is any pagan druid protecting it…

    IMO I’m pretty sure the “divine” interventions would be exactly identical in the mentioned circumstances.

    Who wants to prove a point?

    Come on… who goes first??

    Cheers (in water)

  24. Jane Goody Says:

    The style of writing is very familiar . Did you write guest posts for other bloggers?

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